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ObfuscatoryAlias
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Re:How sad...
« Reply #1 on: 2005-03-10 15:45:10 » |
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What annoys me most is when religious people wave articles like this around as if it is proof that they are right.
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Cydonia
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Re:How sad...
« Reply #2 on: 2005-03-10 20:32:13 » |
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Quote from: ObfuscatoryAlias on 2005-03-10 15:45:10 What annoys me most is when religious people wave articles like this around as if it is proof that they are right.
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I too am annoyed. What they don't realize though, is the amount of spiritual people in the field of science is far less than the average of the population, by percentage. I have always thought personally, that people shouldn't be able to obtain a PHD or higher degrees while being spiritual. Not as in they would be rejected if they help religious beliefs, but that the rationality of such a program would filter things like that out.
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ObfuscatoryAlias
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Re:How sad...
« Reply #3 on: 2005-03-11 12:57:09 » |
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Yes, it is supposedly valid to use the minority to prove a general point but not the majority. Double standard.
As for the PhD thing, well, I know you meant it facetiously at least in part but I'll express my disagreement anyway. There are plenty of people out there who are spiritual and still have plenty to offer. I don't think it is as much of a handicap as the irreligious often make it out to be. I know many people that are very intelligent that are religious at least to some degree, whether they strictly subscribe to dogma or not. People's intellectual contributions are not dependant entirely on spirituality or the lack thereof. What is frustrating about this guy in the article is that he speaks about it as if he has achieved a higher state of mind than other less spiritual scientists. It is as though he has knowledge that the others do not. He should know better and should take a more "to each his own" attitude because the spiritual things he was talking are easily refutable logically speaking. But he did give us a laser.
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Cydonia
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Re:How sad...
« Reply #4 on: 2005-03-11 14:22:14 » |
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Well, would you not agree that you would prefer everyone being non-spiritual? In my experience it does make a difference. There is a sort of critial analysis I notice in people who are not spiritual that I think makes a good scholar. They still do have something to offer, but I'm never going to feel the same connection with them as I would with someone who believed something more rational. It makes me uneasy when I see people completing so much school and being spiritual when like you said, those beliefs are so easily refutable with logic. There are things like a PHD in music, for example, where spirituality doesn't have too much to do with it. Still though, I would prefer our society to be more oriented towards logic.
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ObfuscatoryAlias
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Re:How sad...
« Reply #5 on: 2005-03-11 14:53:35 » |
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I understand your point. However, there could very easily be two professors teaching a course on microbiology, one being a Christian and one being an atheist, and the Christian be the better of the two. There is a man who lives next door to my parents who is a professor of engineering at UCLA and is a Muslim. Nothing about being Muslim would stop him from being an excellent instructor, or practitioner for that matter. Any claim to a lack of identification as being the cause slower progress in studies is more the fault of the interpreter than the stunted logic of the religious professor. Would it be better if religion had a much smaller to no role in society. Absolutely! That is why I am moving to France, eventually! But I also believe that for individual cases, it cannot be blamed for everything. It does not always hinder progress, even in science. Pascal was very important to science but was illogical enough to accept his wager -- a wager that I, at the age of seventeen having been very inferior in intellect to him (and still am), was able to see the flaw in.
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David Lucifer
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Enlighten me.
 
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Re:How sad...
« Reply #6 on: 2005-03-11 21:52:22 » |
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Over the years I have worked with many excellent programmers who happened to be religious in their personal life. Somehow they can be logical at work and turn it off in other areas of their life. I guess it is called compartmentalization.
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Cydonia
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Re:How sad...
« Reply #7 on: 2005-03-21 16:51:13 » |
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Quote:| Over the years I have worked with many excellent programmers who happened to be religious in their personal life. Somehow they can be logical at work and turn it off in other areas of their life. I guess it is called compartmentalization. |
Do you think it is the same logic? I think there are some significant differences between the thought required to accomplish something involving math and something involving what I see as probability and observation. I don't think they're turning things off, I think they're not applying any critical analysis to either situation. They may see a mathematical fuction and understand it, but not question or probe it to the level a more secular person might. I havn't come across a religious person that would strongly defend their beliefs, and I think, atleast for some of them, it is because they have never deeply looked into what their religion is.
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