From: Jake Sapiens (every1hz@earthlink.net)
Date: Thu May 06 2004 - 16:12:53 MDT
I agree that the things the US soldiers are accused of hardly compare to
the acts of other countries who regularly torture prisoners. Indeed
calling it "torture" at this point is extreme and deceptive. "Abuse" and
"humiliation" sound more reasonable, if indeed that's what it was. It's
still bad that it happened at all, still doesn't change the fact that we
are in Iraq through enormous blunder and deception and have no business
being there at all (vis a vis terrorism, 9-11, etc), and still doesn't
change the reality that there were no WMDs and that the Bush administration
likely lied about Iraq's attempts to obtain a nuclear weapon. This kind of
habitual incompetence of the Bush administration has unfortunately caused a
credibility crises that all Americans acting in this endeavor will have to
unfairly endure as long as this administration stays in office.
-Jake
> [Original Message]
> From: Jonathan Davis <jonathan.davis@lineone.net>
> To: <virus@lucifer.com>
> Date: 05/06/2004 12:04:11 PM
> Subject: RE: virus: War & Peace / Rethinking Iraq
>
> Have anything on Islamist methods of torture? I thought you might have
some
> of those video clips of people being set alight, having their arms pulled
> off my jeeps, their testicles cut off or throats cut?
>
> Given that the US army dished out less violence to those Iraqis than was
> typically dished out to army recruits (before hazing was banned), I think
> they got off lightly.
>
> Using words like "Torture" and "Abhorrent" is a bit strong. What words do
we
> have left for things like Daniel Perle being sliced open on tape? Are
people
> seriously suggesting there is some equivalence between this ultra-rare
> conduct of rogue soldiers and what is routine in the Islamic world
(torture
> and murder of prisoners)?
>
> Oh ye innocents.
>
> Regards
>
> Limbic
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-virus@lucifer.com [mailto:owner-virus@lucifer.com] On Behalf
Of
> Jei
> Sent: 06 May 2004 19:29
> To: virus@lucifer.com
> Subject: Re:virus: War & Peace / Rethinking Iraq
>
> On Thu, 6 May 2004, rhinoceros wrote:
>
> >
> > Oh frabjous day! Welcome back Jonathan. I see that we managed to get
your
> attention to the matters of the church after all. If I understand your
> sources correctly, Saddam's weapons of mass destruction have already been
> found but there is a conspiracy of the mass media to keep it a secret,
> right? So it is not correct that Saddam was telling the truth and that
Bush
> administration was lying, right? And they have been keeping it a secret
from
> Bush himself too, right? Everything seems possible at the point we have
> reached, doesn't it?
> >
> > What about Syria? Should they be invaded and searched and taught some
> Democracy in the process?
> >
> >
> > Now, where was that torch?
> > Here is my Quiz of the Day. Who said this last Tuesday?
> >
> > <begin quote> "My impression is that what has been charged thus far is
> > abuse, which I believe technically is different from torture ... I
> > don't know if it is correct to say what you just said, that torture
> > has taken place, or that there's been a conviction for torture. And
> > therefore I'm not going to address the torture word." <end quote>
> >
> > Spoiler here. Don't look.
> > http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2004/05/06/torture/index_np.ht
> > ml
>
> Now that was beautifully put. XD
>
> Here's a piece of History about a UN Vote on Torture:
>
> http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1019.htm
>
> And here's a nice Written by Americans for Americans and all other
torturers
> of the word: A CIA Manual on How to Torture.
>
> http://www.parascope.com/articles/0397/kubark06.htm
>
> There used to be a story report on this manual that put it in many nice
> words, but the gist was that what we've seen in Iraq, was pretty much
> advised and done as instructed by this book.
>
> // Jei
>
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--- Jake Sapiens
--- every1hz@earthlink.net
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