From: Dr Sebby (drsebby@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Mar 08 2004 - 21:05:19 MST
...without looking for facts and supporting evidence of wrongdoing, i would
say it is usually enough when the peasants rise up against you, and largely
support the insurgent guerilla force. people generally don't react with
such brave rebellion unless something really really shitty is going on...and
for a long time.
...i think i could run Haiti. i could turn that country around completely.
DrSebby.
"Courage...and shuffle the cards".
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Casey" <cmanisca@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: virus@lucifer.com
To: virus@lucifer.com
Subject: RE: virus: Re: virus: Déja vu All Over Again in Haiti
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:24:02 -0700
[Casey]
Aristide has been in hot water over his election in 2000 because of voter
fraud charges. During the period just prior to his second election in
2000, opposition groups protested and boycotted the elections, altogether.
While he did garner 90% of the vote, the voter turn out was a measly 5%.
[rhinoceros]
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/election.watch/americas/haiti1.html
<begin quote>
Presidential Candidate: Jean-Bertrand ARISTIDE
Party: Lavalas Family Party (FL)
Valid Votes Received: 2,632,534
Percent of Valid Votes Received: 91.81%
<snip>
Population and number of registered voters:
* Population: 6,867,995 (July 2000)
* Number of registered voters: 3,668,049 (1995)
<end quote>
[rhinoceros]
What was the source of the 5% participation claim? Those elections were
heavily monitored, although not up to par with the "age of the computer".
[Casey 2]
The following link offers the 5% claim. But, I cannot verify it's
accuracy.
http://fpeng.peopledaily.com.cn/200011/29/eng20001129_56428.html
However, this link makes reference to a low voter turnout, according to
opposition parties that were vying for power in Haiti.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1044341.stm
For what it's worth, I will retract my earlier statement of 5% voter
turnout. However, there is evidence, as you've rightly stated, that the
elections were not on "par with the 'age of the computer'" - which I might
add is a major obstacle when determining the outcome and fairness of
elections.
[Casey]
He's also been known to say some not so nice things, for example "The
burning tyre, what a beautiful tool ... it smells good. And wherever you go,
you want to smell it". This refers to an execution practice that gained
popularity in South Africa, called "necklacing" - where a petrol-soaked tire
is placed over a person's neck and set a flame.
[rhinoceros]
This does not sound good at all! What is the source of this?
[Casey 2]
Here's the link to the article where the quote originated:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/02/16/haiti.aristide.ap/
[Casey]
Aristide, a former priest, has used violent rhetoric in the past to
subjugate the people of Haiti. The aforementioned quote is clear evidence
of his lacking human decency.
[rhinoceros]
This may well be so. But you should realize what this is if there is not a
credible source for the previous one.
[Casey 2]
The source is provided above.
[Casey]
Why should the US support such a man?
[rhinoceros]
Sure, they shouldn't support such a man. Although they often do.
[Casey 2]
Indeed, the US has done so. Now, I might add, it is time to desist from
such practices.
[Casey]
Why should the US support a man who according to Gerard Pierre Charles, an
opposition leader, has said "He succeeded in cloaking the country in
terror". Charles, if you are unaware, had his home attacked by the Chimeres
- the group that Aristide has armed. In fact, Charles has said, "He became
worse than Duvalier". Tell me what is worse, having a leader like Aristide
in power, or not?
[rhinoceros]
Wait a minute. Of course, no people should have a leader such as the one
portrayed. But... "cloaking the country in terror". What was the country
like without Aristide? A fairyland? It is understandable that Charles would
be upset, having been targeted by paramilitaries, the ones siding with
Aristide (I read Aristide disbanded the army after the 2000 elections) but
sympathy does not make Charles' arguments any more valid.
[Casey 2]
According to recent news reports the Chimeres (armed supporters of Aristide)
were the culprits in yesterday's violence that saw several people killed,
including a Spanish journalist.
[rhinoceros]
Also, did you read Colin Powel's recent statements where he dismissed the
rebel commanders who "triumphantly" entered Port-o-Prince? A good thing,
since they have been reported as members of "death squads" in the past, but
didn't Powel sound like an employer? I sincerely hope that the term
"democratic opposition" in Haiti really amounts to something but, from what
I have seen so far, I am not sure "democratic opposition" has anything to do
with Bush's actions.
Moreover, I keep reading recent accounts of American M-16s finding their way
through Dominican Republic to the hands of Haitian paramilitaries of the
opposition who roam the countryside. Is Colin going to tell them to disband?
[Casey 2]
I think it's fair to assume that we both know weapons proliferation is
nothing new. AK47's have become the weapon of choice for armies,
terrorists, gun enthusiasts, et al. It very well may be true that M-16s
were brought into Haiti via the Dominican Republic. But, they may have been
purchased from weapons dealers, for all we know; and not supplied to them by
agencies of the US government. Would you have a link detailing your
assertion that M-16s are finding their way through the Dominican Republican
and into Haitain paramilitay opposition groups?
[Casey]
Regardless of the accusations that Aristide has made regarding the so-called
intervention by the US and France, I say Haiti is better off without him.
In fact, so do the few Haitian mmigrants to the United States, with whom
I've had the privilege of having discussed this topic.
[rhinoceros]
What do they see for Haiti's future? Any specific thoughts that you care to
pass along?
[Casey 2]
Granted these discussions are not a broad collection of views of Haitians;
the vast majority had hoped that violence could have been avoided. And,
that Aristide were allowed to remain in power until the next set of
elections.
One interesting point made was that after the 2000 elections here in the US,
there was no armed revolt that toppled the government. A fellow I know from
Haiti was saddened by the fact that people from his homeland could not, or
would not, allow for the fufillment of Aristide's term. I should add that I
support the notion that Haiti continue down the path of a progressive nation
with democratic institutions in place, as opposed to armed confrontation
that sees the ousting of it's leadership because continuous political
upheaval will never, in my opinion, bring about democratic reforms or
financial aid packages from the US, the UN, and others.
However, given what I've read and heard in recent conversations it would
seem that this is just another incident in a long history of violence and
political upheaval. I firmly believe that Aristide was a wedge in the
democratic machine of Haiti. Violence, armed paramilitary groups, and
civil unrest seem to be the choice de riguer for many of those who hold
powerful positions in Haiti, including everyone from Aristide and his
Chimere group to the wealthy business elites. If it discovered that the US
has had any hand in these recent turn of events, then it will appear to be
another poor foreign policy decision. In the meanwhile, it is in Haiti's
best interest to begin searching for a leader who has the wide support of
the people. Else we will see a repeating of these events over and over
again.
Kind regards,
Casey
---- This message was posted by Casey to the Virus 2004 board on Church of Virus BBS. <http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=61;action=display;threadid=30001> --- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l> _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --- To unsubscribe from the Virus list go to <http://www.lucifer.com/cgi-bin/virus-l>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon Mar 08 2004 - 21:07:45 MST