From: Keith Henson (hkhenson@rogers.com)
Date: Tue Nov 04 2003 - 09:05:06 MST
At 09:28 AM 04/11/03 +0200, you wrote:
>[Blunderov]
snip
>To me, the complicated bit is how it is that we construct a contiguous
>internal narrative of ourselves in spite of the fact that we are not
>exactly the same now as we were a moment ago. Add to this the fact the
>fact that we quite often don't behave in the way we would ourselves
>predict - we seem able to assimilate our inconsistencies into the
>consistent system we call "I"!
>
>Clear as mud, I know, I know.
Actually we are not that far off from understanding it from hippocampus
damage cases. But in any case, I don't see how it could be considered a
"replicating information pattern," a meme or an element of culture to use
an alternative definition.
One culture can (and in the case of Easter Island did) bring another
culture a major concept like writing (Rongo-rongo). But I am unaware of
any culture bringing another the concept of "I." That seems to be wired in
to animals, at least to the extent we can see it in other primates.
Meme is a nice short, memorable word. In that respect Dawkins chose
well. But the problem is that the popularity of the *word* has led to a
plethora of people trying to hang divergent meanings on a very simple concept.
You can elaborate on Dawkins without violating his original discussion in
Selfish Gene. Any time someone uses the word, you should be able to
replace it with "replicating information pattern," "element of culture,"
"learned element of culture," "culturegen" (a earlier term for the same
thing) or other similar terms.
So when asked if a religion is a meme, you can ask back: Is it a
replicating information pattern? Is is a learned element of culture? If
the asker says yes, they answered the question.
The point to using the word at all and not just using "idea" or "learned
skill" or something similar is to bring out the Darwinian selection
factor. If you are concerned at the level where using "meme" is
appropriate, you have to be aware that memes interact with other
replicators (including other memes) in all the ways that all other
replicators interact with each other. This can be mutualistic the way
mitochondria have become in our cells or the way lichen is a symbiosis of
fungi and green alga or a cyanobacterium. They range through neutral to
parasitic, deadly even.
At this level you have to be aware that evolution in an environment
consisting of a number of replicators gets *very* complicated. You have
"arms races," oscillation like the rabbits and bobcat populations, and
really complicated interactions with many different kinds of parasites
that keep any one blood type or histocompatibility type from being "best."
Keith Henson
PS. As an example, memes interact with *microorganisms.* Have since
people figured out memes for cheese and beer and started making them on
purpose.
As an example of memes interacting with human genes, you can see both
positive and negative (from the gene's viewpoint). There are a lot more of
certain human genes as a result of the Mormon memes for large
families. There are fewer human genes from the 'nad whacking Heaven's Gate
cult.
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