From: Blunderov (squooker@mweb.co.za)
Date: Tue Oct 28 2003 - 15:36:15 MST
Kharin
> Sent: 28 October 2003 2245
>
> Blunderov, I have to say that I find the speech in question rather
more
> disturbing than you suggest. As an example;
>
> " There is a feeling of hopelessness among the Muslim countries and
their
> people. They feel that they can do nothing right. They believe that
things
> can only get worse. The Muslims will forever be oppressed and
dominated by
> the Europeans and the Jews...
>
>
> It cannot be that there is no other way. 1.3 billion Muslims cannot be
> defeated by a few million Jews. There must be a way. And we can only
find
> a way if we stop to think, to assess our weaknesses and our strength,
to
> plan, to strategise and then to counter-attack...
>
> We are actually very strong. 1.3 billion people cannot be simply wiped
> out. The Europeans killed six million Jews out of 12 million. But
today
> the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die
for
> them. "
>
> See also: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3203428.stm
>
> On the whole, I think Jonathan's interpretation of this is largely
correct
> (though it makes no explicit reference to the annihilation of Israel).
In
> a sense, my main reaction is disappointment. Much of the speech is
correct
> in describing the economic, scientific and cultural decline of the
> Islamic world since the fall of the Ottoman empire. Since Malaysia is
one
> of the very few Islamic states to have had any economic success
(discount
> oil and the picture from the Middle East is rather unimpressive) it is
> disappointing to see victimisation and theocratic unity embraced as
> purported solutions. Instead, the Islamic world would do well to look
at
> the cultural and economic success of the Jewish world and seek to
emulate
> it.
>
> Incidentally, Mahathir is a particularly unstable and dictatorial
> personality. Until this episode he was more notorious for this:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/872820.stm
[Blunderov]
I'm not sure that the link you kindly provided does very much to support
your contention that he is a particularly unstable and dictatorial
personality. Perhaps too much exposure to the daily news has caused my
standards to fall to dismal levels but he seems, from this story, to be
not much worse than many other politicians, some of them in the West,
that we have come to know and loathe. And at least he appears to have
been democratically elected - but perhaps this was rigged a la Mugabe.
That said, your credibility being what it is, I am prepared to take your
word for it.
However, if we confine ourselves to this specific speech, in it is not
clear to me that it is a radical, or even particularly bellicose,
statement. And in fact he does seem to advocate your very sensible
suggestion that Islam seek to emulate Jewish success. Is he to be
disqualified from expecting the same result?
It seems to me that he is referring pretty specifically to the
Palestinian question and as all Virians know full well, this is a very
vexed question. But to me it is very significant that he seems to
specifically condemn suicide bombings and other terrorist actions.
Perhaps he only does so because he perceives them as ineffective - but
he does speak against them.
Imagine, if you will, that due to some unforeseen and entirely unlikely
circumstances, the Palestinians (and Islam in general) were to suddenly
garner the concerted support of both Europe and the USA to the same
extent that Israel now enjoys it. And then an Israeli politician made
the very same speech, of course transposing terms where necessary.
It might read something like:
"There is a feeling of hopelessness among Israelis and Jews everywhere.
They feel that they can do nothing right. They believe that things
can only get worse. The Jews will forever be oppressed and dominated by
the Europeans and the Muslims...
It cannot be that there is no other way. Israel has a god-given right to
exist and his will cannot be subverted by a false religion. There must
be a way. And we can only find a way if we stop to think, to assess our
weaknesses and our strength, to plan, to strategise and then to
counter-attack...
We are actually very strong. 20 million people (or however many Israelis
there actually are) cannot be simply wiped out. The Europeans killed six
million Jews out of 12 million. And today the Muslims rule this world by
proxy. They get others to fight and die for them." (Here one may ad
libertum substitute 'supply them with advanced weapons and technology to
use against us', 'exercise unceasing vetoes on their behalf', or 'make
feeble, if any, protests about the ever increasing annexations of our
god-given territories' for the phrase 'get others to fight and die for
them'.)
Would you find this just as alarming?
Quite possibly I am being obtuse but the speech seems to me to be
relatively moderate.
I would just like to make it clear that I am trying as hard as I can not
to espouse either cause - it is, as I have said, a very vexed question
and Virus has suffered much at it's hands. It is simply my (truly
humble) opinion that your and Jonathan's appraisal of the speech is not
completely objective.
Best Regards
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