From: Mermaid . (britannica@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Apr 21 2002 - 20:57:05 MDT
[Hermit5]If you still share the aims of the CoV I would suggest that you
make up your mind what you want and share it, or contribute constructive
suggestions or criticism and volunteer to do something useful.
[Mermaid]In fact, I did. I gave suggestions and did post from the web for a
while. Tue, Mar 12, 2002..I posted this to see how image translates in the
web format of virus..
http://forum.javien.com/XMLmessage.php?id=id::fWclEVEG-GX4P-TxxV-ZTAJ-XHoGITc9XmUl
When I had a doubt and you answered in your own obscure manner, I said and I
quote myself.."I dont get it." And you, with your infinite charm, replied
something like ..what do you ever get? After that day, I ceased
'contributing'.
[Hermit 5] If you don't share our aims, why are you here?
[Mermaid]I see use in a pile of cow dung. CoV is infinitely more valuble
than that or you, for that matter...
[Mermaid]So..is this is like 'You are either with us or against us?'
[Mermaid]I do share the aims of CoV. I do not share YOUR aims or your
tactics.
[Mermaid]You can name it after yourself or anything else you like. Bottom
line, we are not a team here. I have never believed that CoV welcomed
everyone with open minds.
[Hermit 5] In the meantime, numerous earlier editions of the FAQ (and its
predecessors) appeared on the CoV mail list requesting feedback, criticism
and suggestions. I don't recall any input from you on the process.
[Mermaid]Like I said earlier, I did contribute. In fact, I was the first one
to comment and point out to a couple of minor issues as soon as David
Lucifer made the announcement re the BBS. I stopped only after you
flippantly made it known to me that 'I dont get it' on IRC.
P.S. The full post from Hermit to which the above is a response is pasted
underneth because it hasnt turned up yet in my CoV inbox or in the forum
archives.
<cut>
[David Lucifer 1]
[Samantha Atkins 2]
[David Lucifer 3]
[Mermaid 4]
[Hermit 5]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Mermaid on Today at 18:24:28
[David Lucifer 1] Message sent to Extropians mailing list:
http://www.extropy.org/bbs/index.phpboard=61;action=display;threadid=51564
[Samantha Atkins 2] What do you mean by "their chosen style of
communication"? Do you think all of them chose it or even the majority
agree or do they simply put up with it?
[David Lucifer3]I can't speak for the lurkers, but the community
participants develop it collaboratively.
[Mermaid 4] Oh yea? Is that why its called 'Hermitish markup'?
http://virus.lucifer.com/bbs/index.php?board=31;action=display;threadid=11526
[Hermit 5] The Church of Virus is a collaborative project. It says so right
on the label. In order to collaborate, people work together to achieve a
goal. They don't collaborate by attempting to sabotage one another's
efforts, or by standing back and watching or criticizing from the sidelines.
[Hermit 5] The quoting system is known by its Hermitish name by default -
because I first introduced a system (for myself) along these lines during a
complex multi-threaded discussion in 1999. When somebody asked what it
meant, another Virian suggested it was "Hermitish mark-up". The name seems
to have stuck. Since then Hermitish markup has been generally adopted,
significantly extended, slowly formalized and heavily revised based on
experience and in collaboration with other Virians. Very recently it has
been extended to handle formatting as well.
[Hermit 5] If some other name is determined more appropriate, I'll be happy
to see it changed - I'm not attached to the name in any way. Knowing that I
put a worthwhile document together is satisfaction enough. Knowing that some
of my fellow Virians appreciate it - as much as I appreciate everyone else’s
contributions - is sufficient reward.
[Hermit] In any case, as I recall, you have on many occasions suggested that
nobody could speak for other Virians (that included numerous times when
there was a definite consensus that you didn't much like). But in that
process you were part of forming the consensus (even when it sometimes
seemed to me that you saw your role being confined to attacking the
suggestions of others). So in the matter of Hermitish mark-up - and other
things - I have achieved consensus with others and spoken for myself. I will
continue to do so until the consensus on this changes. It seems as if you
are suggesting you don't like the idea of everyone acting for himself or
herself any more, does that mean you seek a new consensus? If so, why not
articulate it. Speaking for myself (in the absence of a new consensus), I
don't look for petty consistency, but it looks as if you have a major
consistency problem here. If you still share the aims of the CoV I would
suggest that you make up your mind what you want and share it, or contribute
constructive suggestions or criticism and volunteer to do something useful.
If you don't share our aims, why are you here?
[Hermit 5] In the meantime, numerous earlier editions of the FAQ (and its
predecessors) appeared on the CoV mail list requesting feedback, criticism
and suggestions. I don't recall any input from you on the process. However I
did get comments suggestions and assistance from many other Virians who were
interested in helping - particularly David Lucifer. Due to everyone’s input
(and on the formatting side the standardization on YABB), a number of
earlier styles have been abandoned or modified in order to develop a
consensus document (You could look consensus up in a dictionary, you may
have difficulty believing it, but it is very meaningful). Going beyond the
dictionary definition, consensus implies that those who contribute,
negotiate and compromise (these words are also in most dictionaries) define
the consensus for that moment. As you were not a party to the process,
despite the call for input, it is a bit silly to whine now. At a later stage
it is quite probable that others will be involved, and the consensus will
evolve. Perhaps you will feel inspired to become more involved in that
evolutionary process.
[Hermit 5] Now kindly examine the "Author’s notes for revision: 2.1B" in the
document you cite [op cit].
Quote:It has come to my attention that I gave some bad advice in the first
proposal for this FAQ in the making. The formatting I suggested, conflicts
with the embedding of virus messages in some web mail systems. So without
further ado, here is revision II of the FAQ in the making, which also
extends and enhances the format based on the suggestions and contributions
of others, allows the material to be posted directly and safely to embedded
pages, and permits the easy translation to HTML in environments which
support this. In addition, the message numbering system has now been
simplified, to allow easier tracking of complex threads, and a message index
added to the head of a thread for the same reason. … In case any one
wondered, comments, criticisms and suggestions are requested and welcomed….
[Hermit 5] Would you like to suggest how to make it clearer that this is a
consensus document?
[Hermit 5] I am sniping the balance because I refuse to indulge your
characteristic confusion of threads and issues, and seemingly equal
inability to determine for yourself what is and is not appropriate behavior
in a group environment. But it certainly makes it clear what your motivation
for responding to this thread was about, for which I am duly grateful.
<snip>
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Sep 25 2002 - 13:28:46 MDT