From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Mon Jan 28 2002 - 22:49:35 MST
On 28 Jan 2002 at 11:22, athe nonrex wrote:
>
> >>[joedees]
> >The petrowealthy Bin Laden does not feel the exigencies of
> >doorwolves. Nether do the Saudi-subsidized Wahhabis. Poverty is a
> >poor explanation, considering that significant percentages of much
> >poorer people in Africa, Central America and Southeast Asia are not
> >generally exhibiting these savage proclivities (with the exception of the
> >areas in SE Asia where Islam has spread)....
> >Most of the people who were killed by Christians in the name of their religion were killed
> >during the Middle Ages (Inquisition and Crusades and Hundred Years'
> >War and missionary colonialism, etc.), after which Christianity has been
> >gradually and progressively defanged by the moderating and
> >domesticating influence of the Enlightenment and
> >scientific/technological advance. However, Islam has never completely
> >come to terms with modernity; a significant chunk of its adherents still
> >embrace a medievalistic mindset concerning their purported divine
> >license to kill or convert all infidel unbelievers. Their main interest in
> >science and technology seems to be to use it to figure out how to kill as
> >many cursed unbelievers at one time as possible, without absorbing
> >any of the lessons that could be learned by simply asking "why does
> >this stuff work?"
>
> [athenonrex's rebuttal]
> as to the fact that bin laden is "petrolwealthy" [i notice you like the "newspeak" language as described in "1984"] what about bush? sure, sure, sure...he didn't call for a jihad, but he's doing all the same things as bin laden without the overtness of bin laden(and he's also "petrolwealthy")
>
The term is accurate. And althoough Bush did get big oil help, he made
his killing with the texas rangers baseball team. Plus, I have yet to read
in the news of hijacked 747's full of innocent passengers being steered
into the Kaaba by Mancurian candidate clones.
>
> as to your techology assessment of the fundie muslims, it is just an improper arguement. one could assume the same about the menonites or the amish or hisidic jews, but they obviously aren't blowing anything up at all. the point that i was trying to express (and i don't know if it was the
original arguement, as i came in on it in the middle)is that christianity(or judaism, or satanism, or paganism, or zoroastrianism, or etc...et al), under the same conditions, where the PEOPLE are poor( i don't know if i got that part across)and the fascist dictators with presonal vendettas are
wealthy, and *trying to help their people* the same can happen. the people that are adherants to {said religion} would follow their leader of the same religion. and when that leader feeds and clothes a select 50 or 500 or 5000 of them, that 500, 500, or 5000 will be so greatful they would
probably do literally do anything for that *leader*.
>
But my point was that such a series of suicide attacks has never
occurred before from any purportedly religiously driven source.
Certainly not Mennonites.
>
> then take the fact that judaism, christianity and islam are all basically the same. they all originated from the semitic tribes of the ancient middle east. that all condemn the same things, tell their followers at one point or another that all others that do not follow{islam, judaism,
christianity, whatever..} are *heathens* and need to be converted or killed. [i.e. for chritianity and judaism, leviticus 21 says "let no man lay with another man, lest he be put to death, for surely it is an abomination..." the bible/tora mentions several times for the jews (the origin of
christianity) to flow forth and drive out their foes with a blade at their enemies throught. tell me that that is nothing like islam and i will laugh my ass of in disbelief]
>
I WILL tell you that subsequent mutations of the original monotheistic
meme have evolved into increasingly violent and virulent forms, and the
Islamic variant has proven to be by far the most resistant to the
moderating forces of democracy, secularism, egalitarianism and
modernity.
>
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