From: L' Ermit (lhermit@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Jan 10 2002 - 00:30:12 MST
Blunderov commented:
This hedonist believes that pleasure is the most important thing in life.
One of the most importanr things about pleasure is that it implies a lack of
pain! Not too many creatures are fond of pain.
The Mermaid said it well when she said that falling in love is a selfish
decision. Many seem to think that "falling in love" is like stumbling into
an unexpected tiger-pit in the jungle. Really it is more like to "falling
into step" with someone.(Quite often this decision
depends on whether the other person seems willing to be fallen into step
with.)
===
Hermit comments:
All "pleasure" is simply a dopamine experience. As any hedonist should know,
we can obtain "pleasure" via drugs, via interaction (including through
falling - or being - "in love" - or by holding a wet baby - or by receiving
a hug - or from the wag of a tail), via achievement (which may be related to
peer recognition), via peer-groups, via self-modification (e.g.
prayer/meditation/identification with a fictional character), via
satisfaction (good food - or wine - or song), etc. The mind does not care
how we trigger such "pleasure" - it is a purely subjective experience. Thus
as a measure of "importance," "pleasure" per se, seems less important to me
than the route we follow to obtain such "pleasure".
I think that before we can really answer the question, "more important than
love," one has to decide which aspect of love one is discussing. "Eros"
(erotic), "phileos" (friend), "stauros" (family) or even (if it exists)
"agapos" (divine). Or something else (e.g. To err is human but it feels
divine <grin>). Attempting to work within the parameters of "love" discussed
here so far in this thread, I perceive love as a three part experience,
discovering somebody with whom you can "fall-in-step" (good description
BTW), learning that they can be trusted not to injure you, and coming to
consider their well-being as more important to you than your own (which is
also a selfish* action).
Are there "more important things"? I'm not sure the question is properly
phrased. I think that all we can say is that love is one of the more
"important things" for most people. But that normally people have other
interests which are also important. How do you measure importance -
especially as it changes from moment to moment. There are different classes
of things, many of which are really important at different times. We cannot
live without eating, and without life, one cannot love. Does that make
eating more important than love? A fantastic mind-blowing orgasm can happen
(and give immense pleasure) in the complete absence of love (or money - for
those who suggested that). A different kind of pleasure can be had from
learning or teaching. Is money, knowledge or love more important than than
orgasmic pleasure? Or vice versa? May I suggest that importance depends on
the exact moment and the general satisfaction of our "hierarchy of needs" -
which requires all these things and more.
Apropos of something you said, pleasure and pain (both being driven by
similar brain chemistry), are intricately interlinked, and it is quite easy
to "mess up" one's wiring (or have it messed up - as in English Public
Schools and flagellation) to such an extent that pain is perceived as
pleasurable. Unfortunately, this seems to be a one-way switch, and liking
myself the way I am, I have not experimented in this area, so cannot advise
from personal experience. Certainly, there are sufficient examples of people
who search after pain and/or humiliation in order to experience "pleasure,"
that it cannot be regarded as an unusual modus.
Regards
Hermit
*I would suggest that the ethical perspective asks what the relative costs
of something are, and who has to pay them. If nobody else is "paying" for
your "selfish pleasure" then "selfishness" is at least ethically neutral and
may well have social benefits.
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